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October 03, 2008

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Claus

Thanks for writing about the interview, Renee. In general, it would be nice to see such wide-ranging support and respect for U.S. teachers. Polls suggest that Americans like their teachers much in the way that they like missionaries or social workers--There's a strong admixture of pity and a barely-concealed distaste for the job itself. My wife, a high-school teacher in a fairly well-heeled neighborhood, often receives at least as much pity as admiration from people who discover she's a teacher.

I'm assuming that the Finns don't pity their teachers--and that they don't have much reason to. Now, that would be a start....

Bob Heiny

Good question, Renee. I appreciate the quote Claus provided. Some argue that trusting teachers and not providing closer public oversight in the U.S. has resulted in the current status of U.S. public schools. Do you think they have a fair point?

Nancy Flanagan

Most excellent post, Renee!

I think Claus' observation that Americans believe teaching is missionary work is spot-on. In the Laukkanen interview, he says that Finland carefully selects those who will become teachers, from the highest achievers--and that teaching positions are highly sought. It's a different national perception of the complex nature of the work, and the value of teaching to society.

And in that respect, it does matter that Finland is a much more equitable society. In America, the good teachers can choose to go to the "safe, easy" schools--and we send our least prepared teachers into our poor neighborhood schools. It's not just about education policy--it's about the deeply rooted inequalities.

Thanks for sharing this, Renee.

TeachMoore

Nancy: I hear you about the inequalities and the perceptions.

Bob: Fair point? Hardly. All the reliable indicators say teachers have historically had less control over our working conditions than comparable professionals, or than the general public thinks we do (for more on this visit the Center for Teaching Quality website and check out the Teacher Working Condition survey results). The sad fact is our best teachers should be exercising greater influence over the direction of education policy and practice, but the reverse is too often true. Like parents, we often find ourselves having to fight our way into policy discussions or decisions.

Bob Heiny

Thanks for responding. Yes, I agree with you. Respectfully, some teachers see and attend to the politics about schooling. As teachers also know it's possible to consider schooling differently: When it comes to student learning, teachers control student learning rates by teacher choices and behavior with whatever resources we gather for our classroom within whatever political situation we find ourselves each school day. And therein rests a fundamental teacher choice every moment: spend time on the politics of schooling or directly and promptly reduce a student's risk of failing to learn today. I'm curious, do you think teachers can both address the politics of schooling and increase student learning rates (the reason we're paid as teachers) at the same time?

TeachMoore

I think you're making a false dichotomy here. Yes, it is quite possible for teachers to address the larger policy issues of education and make the daily classroom decisions that more immediately affect student learning. I do it in various ways; so do other members here at Teacher Leader Network. Of course, not everyone will balance these things to the same degree or with the same levels of effectiveness; others may not care to get involved with the policy side at all. A properly designed teacher compensation system will allow and encourage those educators who are capable and willing to participate in policymaking without shortchanging our students. Consider Japan, for example, where teachers routinely spend half a day with students and half in preparation and other professional related duties (that would include policymaking and consulting with political leaders on ed policy)--something we should also be getting paid to do.

Bob Heiny

Thanks for clarifying your point Renee. You seem a thoughtful person. I assume you post in order to receive feedback. I offer this respectfully.

I prefer that a teacher run for elected public office in order to participate in policy changes. I see stark differences between politics/policy beyond a teacher's formal preparation and certification, and student classroom learning.

I hope I misunderstand your point about teachers receiving additional pay for anything besides directly, promptly increasing measured student classroom learning above minimum state standards.

renmoore

I thank you for your thoughtful feedback. Just to clarify:
Teachers certainly have the option to run for office if they choose. However, let me make my point perfectly clear: Yes, teachers who choose to exercise leadership beyond their classrooms and offer their expertise to policymakers should be compensated for their time and expertise just as any other expert consultant would be.
It is possible to "directly, promptly increase measured student classroom learning above minimum state standards" (I know because I've done it consistently with at-risk students in high needs schools) AND contribute to the education profession in other ways (mentoring new teachers, leading professional development, writing and reviewing curriculum materials, and helping to shape policy...). Need to broaden your thinking Bob. Excellent teachers are capable of filling multiple roles. Those who have not yet proven themselves in the classroom with students, need to focus their energies there, or be helped by those who have.

Bob Heiny

Kudos for your good work with students with special needs. Thanks, Renee. I still do not see a reason to vote for using public school funds to pay any public school employee to do anything not directly related to explicit contract duties. I don't think you mean this, but the one sentence argument appears as, Give me more public money to do what I want to do beyond my classroom for purposes I or other educators judge relevant even if you don't agree with what I do or the results I get. What one sentence do you suggest, so I can understand your point enough to persuade those who disagree with you?

TeachMoore

Maybe you should to roll back up the page and read my blog post and the responses one more time. Else I'll have to assume you deliberately want to misquote and misrepresent my position. It is precisely because we get the results in the classroom that we are paid by the public to get that accomplished, high quality teachers should be invited to the policy table. In fact, helping to shape how education is done (from teacher preparation to legislation) is a legitimate activity for professional educators, especially those who have proven themselves effective in the classroom. Not all teachers want these extended roles, but those who do should be welcomed, not ridiculed or ignored.

Bob Heiny

Thanks for summarizing your point.

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    Renee Moore has taught English and journalism for 20 years in the Mississippi Delta region at both high school and community college levels. A former state Teacher of the Year and National Board Certified, Renee has written for Educational Leadership and other professional publications.

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  • The Teacher Leaders Network is a diverse community of accomplished teachers from across the United States. TLN is supported by the Center for Teaching Quality as part of its mission to cultivate teacher voice around important matters of education policy and teaching practice. The views expressed on this page are those of the individual author or authors and not necessarily the Center for Teaching Quality.