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July 01, 2009

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Sam

Hi Bill,

I agree completely. I'd also add to your answer that the most useful information to me, as a classroom teacher, has always been my own assessments, including observations and conversations. My assessments are most useful because I fully understand the way in which the student was prepared for the assessment. I know what was taught ahead of time. I have the context.

I suppose this is an argument for "looping" with students, because when I do that, I don't need to reassess. I save a lot of time and can move ahead faster.

But in terms of new students, I would imagine that any teacher who values assessment data finds their own assessments more valuable than both test scores and the assessment results of previous teachers.

And those teachers who truly value test results can always just give a practice test on their own time. There is no need to rely on the results of a test given up to 8 months beforehand.

K. Borden

Mr. Ferriter said “I have little confidence in (EOGs) them as a measure of an individual child's abilities and---given the choice---would take observations by both parents and teachers in every circumstance.

That's not a very tempered response, is it?!”

Let me throw you a curveball that actually gives more evidence for the dangers in relying on EOGs. My daughter was not placed under an IEP because her Level 4 performance on the EOGs did not show her disability impacted her performance. Yup, a child with loads of data not typically available (occupational therapists reports, psych-ed evaluations…) documenting the existence of a disability could not qualify for an IEP because…she performed so darned well on the EOGs that her “disability was not depriving her of a free and appropriate” education. Laughing or crying yet?

That said, it was still the pesky EOG’s that provided a contrast to the observations of classroom teachers that prompted us to ask more questions, seek more information and ultimately find the answers that have allowed a very able child develop the skills to achieve. Teachers wrote her off as failing to complete assignments and failing to use time wisely for years. EOGs noted her as exceeding grade level expectations. Fortunately, we could afford to take that contrast and try to determine what the dickens was going on.

Teachers were right about her failing to complete assignments but wrong about why. EOG’s were right about what she was learning (to the extent the ceilings measure it) but couldn’t detect the co-existing disability. Simon asked me in the previous thread what teachers missed. Stated simply, they missed that she was holding the pencil in a way that made writing very slow, very labor intensive and very inefficient. So yeah, she could fill in ovals to correctly respond to questions very well, but she couldn’t complete assignments. Was she using her time wisely? Were any of us helping her much when we insisted that if she just tried with a more diligent attitude she could meet expectations?

We did help her when we noted a discrepancy the EOGs played a part in helping to demonstrate and went forward to seek more testing and evaluation. We opened a whole new world to her, began to teach her to type and she has taken it from there. We were able to do that because we could afford to engage the diagnostics. Along the journey also found that she was pre-diabetic and had allergies we were not aware existed. Challenges that can be addressed if you just know they exist.

The EOGs are not useless, but using them inappropriately is dangerous business. When she was evaluated further, she was indeed exceeding grade level in ability.

Your observations of Jamison were “unpredictable on a good day”, “when he was on, he was brilliant” and “when he was off, he’d be throwing his shows across the room”. Then his tests results on EOG’s reflected what could be described as an “unpredictable” swing between being on and off over a two week period. It could be said that both the Scranton scoring machine and your observations reported consistent results for inconsistently performing Jamison.

You said: “20 points of academic growth in a week with little to no remediation is simply ridiculous.”

However, you earlier noted that “When his results came back, Jamison's scale scores were something like 10 points HIGHER than they'd been the year before!” (and noted an average of a 3 to 7 point increase year to year for middle grades generally.) If I am reading this correctly, if you compare his retest result to his previous year result, it demonstrates about 3 points above average growth year to year.

The picture emerging of Jamison from both your observations and the tests is one of a student performing inconsistently at times, with a tendency toward demonstrating competence.

Wouldn’t it be great to help Jamison find the tools, skills and habits that would allow him to demonstrate the abilities you observed and his performance over time on the tests indicate he is capable of doing? Is it possible that his 3 point over average year over year growth reflects you did? The really tough part is determining what it is that is causing the inconsistency he demonstrates at times in class and on the tests.

I wish all parents could afford to do what we did and recognize the need to do it. It can change a child’s life.

K. Borden

Sam said: “I suppose this is an argument for "looping" with students, because when I do that, I don't need to reassess. I save a lot of time and can move ahead faster.”

I suppose you could say we loop now with our daughter, given that we are the ones teaching her consistently now. But, after our journey, we have learned to value multiple and diverse assessments, so we don’t rely on just those we do.

Joel Zehring

It's the dark under-belly of the "data-driven" beast. What educators have failed to remember is that data can be both quantitative and qualitative. How many questions did she answer correctly?" is one question, but it should be followed by "How did she answer these questions correctly?" and "What algorithms and intelligences did she use?"

I hear very few people ask what standardized tests cannot tell us about students.

I've just seen a report from the Broader Bolder Approach organization that recommends school and state performance assessments that do not rely exclusively on standardized test results. Download it here: http://www.boldapproach.org/report_20090625.html

TeachMoore

Thanks (Bill and K. Borden)for the graphic and specific breakdown of some of the (many) flaws in relying on standardized tests alone to make crucial decisions about children's education. My experience with state testing data is that it was too generic and too late to use in any meaningful way in the classroom. Some of the newer classroom level data systems that allow teachers or teams of teachers to track student performance over time; however, are much more useful, but still give only a partial picture as your post notes. Nothing like the on-the-ground observations of a trained teacher or an attentive parent.

Sam

K,
I should have said, I don't need to reassess as much. Of course, good assessments are a necessary tool. I was referring, though, to the type of comprehensive assessments that often take place at the beginning of a school year.

Cristine Clarke, Ed. D.

and end of grade tests have become the only relevant standard schools use to assess special education needs. if the child passes EOG's they can't have a learning disability...huh? this kind of weight on one measurement misses the point of education entirely

Kathie Marshall

Bill, Jamison reminds me of students in my sixth and seventh grade reading intervention course. When comparing the DRP scores that got them into the intervention versus their end of course scores, two students rose three grade levels. Great curriculum? Great teacher? However, six or seven students actually got lower scores! Terrible curriculum? Terrible teacher? Like you, I believe this discrepancy has to do with the students' ability and/or willingness to keep on the task and persist through the difficult entries all the way to the end. The fastest done were the lowest scorers. However, if outsiders were to look at this data, I wonder what all of the erroneous conclusions that could be raised.

David Cohen

It's always interesting to read about the perspectives of those of you dealing with earlier grades. Tenth and eleventh graders, in my experience, are commonly resentful or apathetic about testing. There is a small percentage that acknowledge filling in random bubbles, others who blow through giving a half-hearted effort, some who probably mean well but hit the fatigue wall, and some who have the endurance but not the desire to really work at the hard ones, since the tests are meaningless to the students. Many others who do quite well have totally gamed the system on the language arts tests and understand that they do not need to read a long, dense passage in order to answer questions like "In line 4, the most likely meaning of the word 'horizon' is..." The variability in student performance, based on factors you mentioned and others, is an issue ignored by too many people.

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